tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post4544521050588498254..comments2024-03-25T14:54:04.942+00:00Comments on Dora Reads: Why I'm Hesitant To Read Maggie Stiefvater's Raven CycleCee Arr @ Dora Readshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-55438819331236510412020-07-13T12:13:11.050+01:002020-07-13T12:13:11.050+01:00Thanks for the awesome comment!
Oh cool, see I li...Thanks for the awesome comment!<br /><br />Oh cool, see I literally had no clue what St. Mark's Eve is! Lol. I'm not pretending that I've read the books - this whole post is about why I'm hesitant to do so - so some details are less relevant than others.<br /><br />If someone's obsessed with Glyndŵr... even his Wikipedia page will give you his name. If someone's *that* obsessed with him... I'd expect that person to understand that he isn't just a mythical figure. He's a real person who has become a symbol of rebellion and Welsh sovereignty. Calling him 'Glendower' is a reminder that our history isn't considered important enough to give us the dignity of our own names.<br /><br />I'm aware that crows have significance in a lot of cultures - to be honest, if it wasn't for the Owain Glyndŵr issues, I wouldn't have worried. The fact that she uses Welsh culture, and they are so significant in ancient Welsh culture (especially before the imposition of Catholicism, and later Protestantism... we have a somewhat complex history!) makes me concerned that she would also handle that aspect insensitively.<br /><br />Thanks very much for taking the time to read this! It's hardly an expert's view, and we know pitifully little of our own history, due to the English-centric nature of UK attitudes, but I had to write it. We're a small but proud nation, and our history deserves respect. <3Cee Arr @ Dora Readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-48237582027937146602020-07-12T20:28:44.481+01:002020-07-12T20:28:44.481+01:00This is such an important read. I had questions ab...This is such an important read. I had questions about the history going into the books that weren't answered at all and I'm struggling to write fic in ways that aren't like, continuations of issues presented by the author(#sweating). <br /><br />Honestly how she ended the thing with Glendŵr felt like a copout. I think I get what she was going for in a narrative sense, but it felt weird to me as a reader. <br /><br />Also I will say that most of the Glendŵr part of the series is a 17-year-old rich boy's obsession with him. (As much as we love Gansey...) But once again, you'd think, regardless of who you are or where you grew up that this level of obsession would at least show him to the proper name at some point. <br /><br />And idk if other people have commented on this -- but St. Mark's Eve is a bit of a thing for followers/readers of occult shit in America. So that's probably where she got that. But I think you're right, she was definitely reaching with the seer/spectre stuff. Especially since one of the main characters in the books is literally a ghost. I think she tried for some level of separation of those two concepts, but it didn't totally land. <br /><br />The raven thing --- honestly, I don't even know what to say about that. Considering what you wrote, I think there would have been a deeper story to tell with the actual history instead of just going with ravens (which, once again, have ties to American occult stuff).<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the free education. Can't believe this isn't talked about more. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17145909580817415726noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-80325236047909299242018-01-17T10:39:38.763+00:002018-01-17T10:39:38.763+00:00The other character's names was always more of...The other character's names was always more of a nit-picking thing to me. Given the similarities between Blue's ritual and ours... I'll let people judge for themselves, but it still doesn't feel right.<br /><br />Glyndŵr is still (several centuries after he disappeared) a political rallying point here - especially for Welsh Nationalists (different to most Nationalists - they're more like Separatists) but there's a lot of messy politics there. <br /><br />We have long memories and the failure of his rebellion has always been one of our most painful losses, along with the murder of Prince Llywelyn. The use of 'Glendower' has always felt disrespectful from a Welsh standpoint, it's like a final insult from the English to a man who could have freed us from them.<br /><br />Thanks for reading! I always feel the urge to rant whenever someone mentions the series, because it's akin to someone calling George Washington something like Jorge Washisspun, and everyone just going along with it! Glyndŵr holds the same place for us as Washington does for Americans. (I'm getting better at holding myself back though! Lol.)Cee Arr @ Dora Readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-52202111609751200962018-01-16T18:20:50.445+00:002018-01-16T18:20:50.445+00:00I can completely see how the Anglicisation of the ...I can completely see how the Anglicisation of the name would be upsetting to people in Wales. So sorry that it ruins the idea of the series for you!<br /><br />I don't know if this will set your mind at ease at all, but the books aren't actually set in Wales (as you indicated in my post). The series is set in the US (in a fictional town in Virginia) and none of the actual characters in the book are Welsh (including Neeve). Also the customs like St. Mark's Eve and people not being able to see spectres don't come from Welsh tradition since it's all American characters who have no ties to Wales. I don't know if any of that makes you less upset about the series, but I thought I'd let you know. I'm really grateful that you shared this piece of your history with us so that we can understand your perspective more fully!<br /><br />Nicole @ <a href="http://feedyourfictionaddiction.com" rel="nofollow">Feed Your Fiction Addiction</a> Nicole @ Feed Your Fiction Addictionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08637114079800138680noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-6040010492457210792017-03-11T10:05:31.370+00:002017-03-11T10:05:31.370+00:00I really don't mind people loving it... but I&...I really don't mind people loving it... but I'm still hesitant to read it myself!Cee Arr @ Dora Readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-71689020337467369962017-03-11T05:57:59.864+00:002017-03-11T05:57:59.864+00:00I have to be honest that I haven't read The Ra... I have to be honest that I haven't read The Raven Cycle and that even though I know it's very popular, I actually don't really know what it is about either :P I just know that a lot of people really love it. But if it is about your history and culture, and it isn't being portrayed right, I can understand why you wouldn't want to read it!Olivia's Catastrophehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12706765857201768908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-79279707219892016922017-03-04T10:18:58.235+00:002017-03-04T10:18:58.235+00:00Ha, it's probably best you don't see the p...Ha, it's probably best you don't see the pic up close - it's a sketch I did a while ago and I've never been able to get it to look quite how I want to!<br /><br />And yes! Now if the spam folder could get rid of actual drug-dealing spammers, instead of people with genuine comments, that'd be lovely :)Cee Arr @ Dora Readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-52615080575276646992017-03-04T07:56:26.335+00:002017-03-04T07:56:26.335+00:00No problem with the long rant. I do that with topi...No problem with the long rant. I do that with topics that are near to me too. Is there a possibility to see a larger version of your profile picture. I would love to be able to see it properly.<br /><br />I'm so glad the comment got posted!!!Huntress of Diverse Bookshttps://huntressofdiversebooks.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-62509451070948255362017-03-02T14:22:10.234+00:002017-03-02T14:22:10.234+00:00Your assessment pretty much matches mine.
Glendo...Your assessment pretty much matches mine. <br /><br />Glendower and Glyndwr are pronounced differently - Glendower is basically something English people say because they don't bother to learn how to say Glyndwr, so while Glendower is easier to pronounce (for a non-Welsh person,) it's not the same thing. As I said, Glendower is gibberish - a corruption of something which holds actual meaning here. And just having to read and write it this many times is irritating enough!<br /><br />I would be willing to forgive almost everything, if she put in historical notes. Most non-Welsh bookish folks I've spoken too weren't even aware that Glyndwr was a *real* person, whose disappearance lost us our strongest chance to break away from English rule.<br /><br />The only reviews I've found by Welsh bloggers have generally liked the book, but been irritated by the Glendower thing.<br /><br />Given that, sadly, a lot of people here don't know our own history and culture (English and/or British history and culture is often foregrounded,) I'm still concerned there might be a lot in there that other people haven't picked up on. <br /><br />I personally feel a connection with brain and adar (crows and birds) - my profile pic is an Adaryn Rhiannon, a mythical bird which can sing the living to sleep and wake the dead. Adar are a complex part of our folklore (like everything about Welsh and Celtic folklore, things are rarely just 'good' or 'bad',) and if Stiefvater plays so fast and loose with established fact... how will she treat the nuances of our mythology?<br /><br />Sorry, long rant! Thanks so much for your comment :)Cee Arr @ Dora Readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-24478853173041934152017-03-02T03:08:03.438+00:002017-03-02T03:08:03.438+00:00I feel like this is a case for me in which the aut...I feel like this is a case for me in which the author's actions have made me uninterested in reading the series.<br /><br />She doesn't seem to care at all about the Anglicisation of the name and is patronising on Tumblr. In my opinion, there could have been a pronounciation guide if she's worried that her readers cannot pronounce the name, and not phoenetic spelling of names in the book. She also seems to not have cared about the Welsh culture and history at all.<br /><br />It's totally understandable that you're uncertain about reading it. I will be looking to see if I can find reviews by Welsh bloggers, before reading the book.Huntress of Diverse Bookshttps://huntressofdiversebooks.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-56005454043402231322017-03-01T13:22:44.408+00:002017-03-01T13:22:44.408+00:00The other characters were more of a minor point to...The other characters were more of a minor point to me - like I said, I was nitpicking there! <br /><br />Basically, I'm hesitant to read it because what I've seen suggests that she doesn't have the correct understanding of *what it means* to change Glyndwr's name - or even of Glyndwr's importance as a whole. That makes me worry for how she treated everything else, y'know? <br /><br />But no, I have nothing against the series. I just think if she was going to write it this way, there should've been full historical notes acknowledging a history and culture that we've had to defend for centuries.Cee Arr @ Dora Readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-73021300286838575502017-03-01T12:43:22.929+00:002017-03-01T12:43:22.929+00:00Very interesting post Cee! As a big-time fan of Th...Very interesting post Cee! As a big-time fan of The Raven Cycle series, it was great learn something new and i'm glad that you were able to educate us on this. I think Maggie should have done more research. I think she picked Glendower specifically because it is easier to pronounce, but if she wanted to show Welsh culture than she should use the proper names. However the other characters in the book aren't meant to represent Welsh culture, so i think that's wht they don't have Welsh names. For example, one of the characters, Ronan is Irish, Persephone was African, Blue was bi-racial, so i think that's why Maggie didn't choose Welsh names for them :) Thank you for shedding light on this though! It's important to know!paperbackprincesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07446601964387517150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-24584673532335277262017-03-01T11:36:30.214+00:002017-03-01T11:36:30.214+00:00Glad to be of use. :)
Not many people know the h...Glad to be of use. :) <br /><br />Not many people know the history - which is what pains me the most, it being such a popular series. Glyndwr is held as an icon of Welsh nationalism - he's a hero here, and it feels like people don't understand the history. Our history is long, and full of blood and a struggle to keep our own identity. Some acknowledgement of that would be nice.<br /><br />All this makes me hesitant to read the series because it suggests to me that Stiefvater doesn't know what she's talking about. Everyone tells me it's a great series and I'm like, 'Yes... but you don't understand how frustrating the use of 'Glendower' is to a Welsh person!'<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for the great comment - I thank I've ranted enough for the time being! :)Cee Arr @ Dora Readshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04074909561530525221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-904551567804562350.post-38223909975006724182017-03-01T11:00:11.733+00:002017-03-01T11:00:11.733+00:00This was such an interesting and informative post!...This was such an interesting and informative post! I honestly had not known any of that, so I learned something new tonight thanks you to :-) And you're allowed to have whatever reasons you want for not reading a book/series, regardless of whether other people think they're just mole hills!Kit @ Metaphors and Moonlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10113986982046115579noreply@blogger.com